Tuesday, November 25, 2014

Pruning The Dead Weight

This is a brief post, but it has more the one purpose.  I've dumped a few links (in part) since I feel they have been borderline hostile, ignorant, or slamming MGTOW philosophy while demonizing anyone who is sympathetic to it.   The irony is that the detractors I have read typically are characterizing MGTOW as the flip side of feminism, and it is anything but that ideology and nothing as destructive and certainly not misandrist.   We are not an organized movement or a cult, and we will not yield to the unhealthy toxic consensus or self-appointed figureheads that would lead us astray; we are individuals engaging in self-determination and do what is best for our lives, regardless of what the state, feminists, white knights, politicians, and their sycophants declare otherwise.  

The irony is that the current crop of barbs directed against it is very little different from feminist shamming.  As if that will change anything---it will only convince anyone who is already fed up with the proverbial slings and arrows they have received over time that the continued push against men has to be curtailed, and solidifies our own positions.  The fact of the matter is that MGTOW ideas have gotten bigger than people can dismiss now, and will have some very, very intriguing ramifications in the years to come.

That being said, anyone who is MGTOW friendly (even if just in spirit), let me know if you want to add you as a link I will most certainly consider it.  SR


PhantomZodak said...

i still don't know what mgtow is. i've gotten too many definitions from many different men. is it men who don't marry or is it men who don't have ltr or is it men who don't have sex? it just seems like such a vague label that i don't understand why anyone would use it.

Sociopathic Revelation said...

Just glancing at your blog, I'm a little surprised that you asked---although perhaps you want my own opinion on it.

In fact, that's what the embroiled conversations about what MGTOW---and what it isn't---has been about lately, apparently. Personally, I can't see why anyone would classify that a "traditional" arrangement in marriage is MGTOW-like. Let's face it, the traditional idea of marriage is DEAD, and even women who claim that they are old-fashioned want the upper hand in dating and marriage as well as probably everything else.

Some Men Going Their Own Way completely avoid women, some do have LTRs but on their own terms, and some (like myself) have had friend with benefits situations and have had sexual dalliances with women, although I've become more cold to them again because they are still fraught with possible peril. I'm sure that there are men that are either incels or celibates by choice, so . . .

One thing is certain---marriage for men in the West is a potentially precarious deal, and more often than not still favors women in the short or long haul. It can also crush men in divorce or what not, so men that are MGTOW are deciding to forgone it for those and other reasons. Some men are even withdrawing interactions with women other than the superficial because of false harassment and abuse charges that can ruin them. Even the narcissism and selfishness of modern women have been making men more wary, even if they are still around them despite being gunshy.

One thing I'm definite on---you can't be MGTOW and have a traditional dynamic with women. Not now days. Even Straight Shooter (a married man) agrees with this although he talks about MGTOW, and does Bar Bar and Stardusk although they are not married.

Hope that makes some sense. SR

Rmax said...

Hey SR, my blog deals with quite a lot of mgtow issues

I also emphasise men avoid becoming alphas for women & leverage their most important traits, as the path for excellence

The blog is Rejecting Modern Women

Captain No Marriage said...

I was completely unaware of MGTOW and the Men's Rights movement when I started my rantings. I was simply trying to recreate the raw, crass dialogue that you'd get when a group of guys got together over a few..or quite a few...drinks. I'm glad I've found these MRA blogs, although I don't consider myself an MRA, I'm just a guy with a beer and a blog. Keep up the good work my friend.

Anonymous said...

Men Going Their Own Way is NOT the equivalent of men simply doing whatever they want. Rather, it is men rejecting the traditional role husband and, instead of seeking marriage, going in another direction. That's what the "their own way" part of it means. Not just that it is their (ie the particular man's) way (which could well be the same as the traditional husband "way"), but that it is their (ie men's only, and not anybody else's) way.

A "way" not only chosen by a man, but one that does not include a wife.

Now, that still leaves a lot of room for variations...some MGTOW want nothing to do with women. These tend to be middle aged or older, and, having experienced "male menopause," feel that they can live completely without sex. And, without sex, they don't need, or want, women at all.

Some, but not many, MGTOWs are OK with a LTR with a woman, but not marriage. Such men have to be careful that emotionally they are not in the same position as husbands. Perhaps even more importantly, they have to make sure that they are not legally considered to be "common law" husband, or liable for "palimony" if the LTR goes bust.

Most MGTOWs are somewhere in between. Younger MGTOW tend to date, have one night stands, and even short to medium term GFs. Others deal with the sex drive through commercial sex, of one kind or another. Or simulacra sex, also of one kind or another.

Being a MGTOW does NOT mean being a PUA. But a PUA CAN be a MGTOW. Being a MGTOW does NOT mean being an "Alpha" male, but an Alpha male can be a MGTOW. Alpha, beta, omega, or total rejection of these categories, none of that really matters. Nor does running "GAME" on women, or not. Being a MGTOW means that one's approach to women, and to the traditional, "alpha" male role that most hetero women do (in fact, despite what they say) want, is totally up in the air. A MGTOW can use GAME and act (or even be) alpha, to get one night stands, or short and medium term GFs, or even to keep his non marriage LTR spicy. On the other hand, a MGTOW can either avoid women entirely, or deal with them entirely on his own terms, refusing to use, or even learn, GAME, at all.

Anonymous said...


Outside of the sex-women-relationship side of things, MGTOW, because they do not have the financial responsibilities of husbands (and in most cases, fathers), can, and do, lead better, and more interesting, or at least more care free, lives than most men do. They are not tied to boring, but stable jobs. They are free, financially and emotionally, to travel, and even live abroad. They are free to pursue their dreams, to engage fully in hobbies and interests and participatory sports. Others are artists or writers or scholars. Some pursue spiritual enlightenment. Some just take life easy.

The basic premise is that the current version of feminist marriage stinks for men. Some MGTOWs think even the pre feminist marriage deal for men was not so hot. Others disagree. But both agree that to marry today is a disaster of a deal for men. A deal in which all of the old obligations of men continue, and new ones are added, while wives are free to do any damn thing they want, and to pull the plug any time they want, and walk away with cash and prizes, as well as destroy a man's relationship with his kids.

So, with that in mind, marriage is eschewed, and a man has to step up and make choices for himself. The pre packaged "get married because it is part of adulthood" thing no longer applies. Some NGTOWs can be jerks, and insist on either some sort of life of adventure (like Commander McBrag!) or on total repudiation of women. Some MGTOWs go to the other extreme, and claim that marriage, particularly in conjunction with some sort of "married GAME," qualifies as MGTOW. Both have it wrong. A man can be a thrill seeker. He can go to Tibet for enlightenment. He can be an artist. Or he can work as easy a job as possible (or none at all, if he can swing it financially!) and do nothing more than go fishing most of the time. But he can't get married!