From the blog site:
One of the curious changes in the online community over the last decade is the growth of the men’s rights movement. Driven by concern for men’s issues, men’s rights activists formed online communities. The movement garnered the attention of several people who have since led offline activist campaigns to help men and boys. But perhaps more than helping men, the men’s rights movement has spawned a feminist backlash against the movement and the discussion of men’s issues.
The most common accusation against men’s rights activists is that they are part of a hate group. Feminists claim that the ideology guiding men’s rights activists is rife with misogyny, particularly as it relates to violence against women. Feminists claim exposure to men’s rights groups causes people to support and potentially commit violence, although no self-professed men’s activist has ever been reported to have hurt anyone, whether on his own or in the name of the movement. Feminist bloggers like Manboobz owner David Futrelle, Amanda Marcotte, Hugo Schwyzer, and dozens of others list examples of comments and posts from men’s rights sites to try to prove their claim. As far as feminists are concerned, the men’s movement or any concern for men’s issues teaches nothing but hate.
Coincidentally, men’s rights activists argue the same thing about feminism. Part of their core beliefs is that feminism seeks to oppress men and shift all power to women. Of course, feminists cry foul at the mere assertion that any feminist is capable of hurting men, let alone that feminism as an ideology teaches misandry.
Case in point, on a recent Manboobz thread I mentioned my experiences with my feminist aunt.
Futrelle posted a rhetorical question from a men’s rights blog, but the comment section revolved around a joke one of the men’s rights’ commenters made involving shooting feminists with boiled potatoes until they renounced feminism. To this I replied
[...] I would have much preferred my feminist aunt to jokingly fantasize about shooting me with boiled potatoes to get me to accept feminism than have her actually maliciously shove dildos and strap-ons up my ass when I was a child to teach me how evil “patriarchy” is.
This prompted a number of comments, the gist of which was that feminism had nothing to do with my aunts actions, that feminism never causes bad behavior, and that my aunt is not a feminist. I received a similar response from feminist blogger Barry Deutsch several years ago when I mentioned my aunt (which also prompted Barry to ban me). My response to the Manboobz comments that an ideology can inform a person’s actions led to a host of retorts, the best of which came from Rutee Katreya:
Find for me where feminist thought says the rape of boys is a requisite action to promote equality for women. What your aunt did was fucking horrible. I don’t really see a reason for you to be on board with feminism because of it. But I simply will not allow you to slander an entire movement trying to prevent similar for hundreds of people (Not women, girls, boys, or men, people) because of one person, who can’t even get people to agree with what she did, and who nobody within has apparently defended. Trying to say we’re ‘like’ or worse, *worse* than a movement that just wants to perpetuate enslavement for a gender, because one woman who is a feminist did a horrible thing to you, is not going to fly.
This is the the same feminism
that teaches that men collectively oppress women for the sole purpose of keeping all the power for themselves. The same feminism that claims that every male, regardless of his age or social status, benefits from this “patriarchy” at women’s expense. The same feminism that holds the fraction of men with power and the fraction men who commit violence as representative of the whole male population. The same feminism that views men as the ultimate enemy
, one to be feared, distrusted, and suspected.
Would it surprise anyone that an ideology espousing that kind of hatred might cause a person to hurt someone?
It certainly does not surprise feminists. The core of the feminist argument is that society’s ideas about women cause men to commit violence against them. Yet how is it possible for the men’s rights movement and conspiracy theory called “patriarchy” can cause violence, but an openly anti-male ideology like feminism could not possibly cause a woman to hurt her nephew? This blog is full of accounts of feminists using feminism to hurt, punish, and discriminate against men. Numerous men and women have written and spoken about the negative impact feminist ideas had on them. Plenty of people have discussed how feminist policies have hurt boys and men. The misandry within feminist doctrine is obvious that feminists feel the need to create a Feminism 101 blog and constantly remind people that feminism is not about hating men. And they do this all while claiming that “patriarchy” makes men rape, beat, and kill women. Everything from stiletto heels to make-up comes back to one pseudo-ideology making men oppress women. It is a glaring contradiction that so far none of the feminists responding to me over at Manboobz can seem to get around.
I do feel for them. They are essentially trying to defend the feminist version of “when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal”. They cannot just admit that feminism as an ideology can be and has been used to hurt people, and something inherent in the ideology makes that so common. As such, I can forgive the insults and the wild straw man arguments claiming that I stated my aunt represents feminism or that I stated that feminism supports child rape. I suppose I would pull at straws too if someone said a thing I do not believe possible happened to them.
(Note: Needless to say I admire TS's fortitude with the feminist circles he engages. I have no patience for them, personally or otherwise).
My response is here:
One of things they will never acknowledge is that no matter how your perspective is, the feminists, white knights, the media misandrists, and politicians will not come to grips that they have a mammoth hand in crafting the anti-male environment we have now. Openly admitting it would be confessing their guilt even with all the blatant disgust for men and masculinity that has been ongoing. Yet when men criticize feminism and its supporters and adherents for what they are and what they do, we are automatically branded as misogynists. It’s damned if we do, and damned if we don’t.
Of course, white and nerdy, they will claim you were bitter all along. It’s absolute nonsense, but as you know they will not ever expose their own complicity, or look in the mirror for the answer as to why men are ever coming to more of the conclusions we have about them.
I also have been accused of being a woman hater more than anything else. Regardless of what that’s supposed to mean to them (hell, even ignoring a woman’s whim has now been labeled as abuse or misogyny), one thing is clear—men who discover that Ameriskanks are far from flowers and light glean this from interaction and experiences with them, not from being shunned. I know some men that would actually prefer being ignored by women after a time considered all the abuse and lies hurled at them over the years. Anyone from Burton to Zed/Zenpriest has made this known; a man who has his eyes opened about the dark side of women does not become cynical and wary because they were like that to begin with—they become wary through dealing with them. Most men I know grew up with an almost idealistic view of women, if not placing them on pedestals. Unfortunately, some men never learn to grow out of that, and even get punished by their denial of skank and feminist behavior. Still, they will defend skanks, golddiggers, single moms, and feminists to the brink of hostility even though they will suffer in the long haul for it.
We have to look out for ourselves and promote our rational self-interest, with or without women. If this is “misogyny,” so be it.
They despise and fear men they ultimately can’t control. That’s what it’s really all about. Even abusive men still gravitate toward women, and there are women who will welcome them. A man that truly has power over a woman is one that can walk away—even one who has loved her in the past, but will no longer tolerate personal jabs and exploitative efforts from one.
I have pondered a few times why so many women have such open resentment and even hatred towards men. In the past, I thought Whiskey is not wholly correct about how Ameriskank women perceive beta men as disposable and loathsome, but now it’s seems much on par with what how they treat men as such. My own opinion is that they pretty much don’t give a shit about the majority of men, and it’s all about them. Period. Granted, that sentiment is in gradients, but it still holds true. But there is a counter to this, and one I hope catches on eventually.
I think enough is enough—I don’t care where that hidebound resent or even seething hatred comes from, and if feminism fuels that fire or not (which is most certainly does). I do not give credence to it. Feminists can bitch about patriarchy until the end of time and justify why they are so angry with men even while being underhanded about—it will never be something I will accept. Not as a man. No way. Not ever.
I honestly believe the MGTOW philosophy, in part, is a reaction for being mistreated as much as we are getting sick and tired of being looked upon as second class citizens (or less so) and want our sense of worth and rights as men upheld in general. I think Zed hit upon something when he pointed out your typical American skank doesn’t see as holistic human beings, and women are shocked when many men reveal we are deep wells that have more depth than they want to realize. This would mean we would have be treated as real equals on every level, and this is precisely what they don’t really want. Herein lies the difference between MGTOW and feminism . . . the latter is about female supremacy, power, control, and lack of accountability while still shunting the onus on men with almost everything.
No wonder more men are gradually awakening up.