Monday, April 30, 2012

Dismantling The Nice Guy Stigma, Notes About MRA+, and Gaming And Intimacy

I think the idea of the "Nice Guy Syndrome" has to be revamped, especially when dealing with feminists.


I lurked on a blog which there was rather extensive discussion about it.  It's a fairly trafficked feminist one with an OP that has made quite a name for herself, including not apologizing for attaching stigma to white men she blasted years ago.  It's curious has to why exactly she feels the need to perpetuate the nice guy mythic nonsense.  Of course, she's a towering moralist so she's above the very subject she claims righteous indignance.  But being a feminist, that's a given.


It was also worthy of note the virtually all of the posters blamed the "nice guys" they interacted with were at fault for their own behaviors.  Nevermind these same feminists attested quite many experiences with them.  Give me break; if they detest the mentality so much, perhaps shunning them would be in order if possible.  Is this an option they would rather not eschew?


Also don't even bother to think for a moment that these women are capable of the traits they state they abhor.  They are, but will not readily admit it even under pressure.  This includes passive-aggressiveness, selfishness, ulterior motives, self-entitlement, and even feeling scorned if not expecting the sex they want at command.  It's quite concurrent with Ameriskank behavior.  Too bad they largely refused to see their own projection of those attributes themselves.  


If they were so adamant about not rewarding "nice guys," they would procure not even dating them in their personal lives.  Before anyone accuses me of hypocrisy, if I continued to date clear cut Ameriskanks and got burned over and over, I wouldn't expect a lot of sympathy once I woke up to the fact my attraction was part of the problem and did nothing to curtail it.  These same feminists don't bother to proclaim they are rewarding those same men they bitch bitterly about.  Again.  And again. 


I'm sure they believe they are the better half of their foibles concerning their toxic relationships.  They are egregious liars.


***


I think the term "nice guy" should be laid to rest.  


It's intriguing how everyone believes they aren't, or don't want to be perceived as such.  Granted, I think that the expression should be purged and another take its place; one that would describe certain levels of traits that can be identified.  Social introversion isn't a handicap or synonymous with dysfunction per se; it has some aspects it can be positive or self-defensive (such as avoiding toxic relationships), but so many people seem to get the term confused.  


Not to mention the moronic pseudo-adage, "Nice guys aren't really nice guys anyway."   Okay . . . you towering moral bastion of feminist morality---ahem, to pardon the phase---nice try.  


It's often employed as an excuse to gravitate towards creeps and cads.  And treat good men like shit.   It's truly a pathetic rationalization.  


Contrary to common belief, you push a man against the ropes enough, even all but the most Caspar Milquetoast of men will come out (proverbially speaking, at least) swinging.  It's human nature.  It's inevitable.  Men have a large capacity to take a good heap of dung they shouldn't without much complaint (as women think they do often).  But some people have more sensitive triggers than others, and saying and doing anything and expecting a man to take abuse as a "real man" is the hubris of fools, masochists, fake alphas, and, of course, feminists.


The stunning conceit of an Ameriskank is thus:  "I can get away with anything I want with a nice guy, he should be a real man and take his lumps and not bitch too much and still cherish me." 


By dubbing someone as an average frustrated chump or nice guy---in the negative sense that many utilize---people categorize someone in a confining box and give excuses to treat them as such.  And they are surprised when that same labelled man defies expectation or protests being a doormat.  Suddenly, he's a royal prick when he's not ripe for personal (or other types) of exploitation.   And yet the social perps who treat a man as such get dumbfounded and pissed because men refuse to conform to the false dichotomy of nice guy/bad boy, and clearly don't want to acknowledge that they created the problem in the first place.

***


There has been some heated debate about MRA+ and how men can possibly find real love despite the pitfalls and dreaded landscape of US relationships, whether it be casual dating up to marriage and family.   I ultimately believe that it is the choice of each man whether or not he engages women---and what type of woman he desires and the nature of his relationship to that said woman.  Men who choose not to involve themselves with women should never be shamed or stigmatized; it is obvious that there exists risks for men dating US women and I don't have to craft a list for many to understand that point.  But it is not my position to belittle those who seek the depth of a profound bond.


Unfortunately, most men---myself included---grew up with an idealized conception of what their mate was going to be like.  And had their hopes dashed and crushed again and again.    By leading men down the primrose path and not providing them with a grounded sense of realism and what women can be like is anything from naive to irresponsible.  There are quite a good percentage of them that are reproductive opportunists; even irrational self-interest in a woman is still self-interest.  Men who are practicing rational self-interested are often viewed as selfish misogynists; a woman doing the same is pragmatic and smart.


For the longest time, I pined for my own Kate Beckinsale, a woman who possessed a set of qualities so many women profess they generally have without feeling a need to demonstrate them very much.  Even those who are not starry-eyed dreamers will wax that if I don't believe in it somehow, it will never happen no matter what the odds.  


Trouble is, I actually did believe I had a soulmate that would fulfill my desire for a deep companionship.  It took some doing, but after a time I awoke from that dream.  I cannot tell you enough how painful and even traumatic it was in the process---I made it on the other side, although I'm not entirely unscathed.


Even seeking the equivalent in a mate is exceedingly difficult as a realist; and as a man you are typically blamed if you don't attract the right women---even if you avoid the bad and walking damaged for a legitimate female cohort.

It is for the better I no longer buy into the feminine mystique and peer behind the veil; I honestly believe this wonderment was one of the main factors why a good friend of mine slowly drank himself to death.  Granted, it was one of a few core elements, but it was obvious to myself.  After the second break up of the only woman he openly declared his love for, he went into a such a bout of heavy drinking and depression he almost died two years before his actual passing. 



It is truly up to us to educate ourselves on the nature of the female dark side, feminism, and Ameriskank behavior and spread the word.  Men have been living under the lie of how without women they are nothing; we have to smash this modern myth like Thor wielding his Mjolnir hammer with a calculated fury.


***


Zed/Zenpriest has stated something profound about gaming a future wife or one in practice; if one feels the need to constantly employ player tactics to gain the upper hand with a spouse, you will never feel true intimacy.


There's a lot to be said about that.  I'm not as overtly critical of pick up artistry all the time, but "game" has little answer to obtaining real trust and intimacy with someone you must constantly game in order to dominate and lead.  If you are not in the position to steer naturally and have to employ a set of manipulations to keep personal power going, it is not exactly a happy situation and can even lead to resentment and mistrust.  


If you have to game your wife so she doesn't move on to the bigger, better deal or gradually steamroll you, you don't have a marriage that is wholly sound.  It's just a matter of fact.


Trust is vital to any healthy relationship.  Many relationships aren't always short-lived, but those that don't have trust as a cornerstone are certainly strained to begin with.  In all seriousness, those who practice game may have some answer that could help, but I haven't seen one outstanding one that would work in a satisfactory manner.  


If one wishes to have that deep bond between husband and wife, brinkmanship should not be an overriding portion of it.  Sadly, even in marital situations where gaming hasn't been known, it's often present as well.  


8 comments:

Anonymous said...

I have two points to be considered here.
First: the contradiction between Feminists claming men are villains and the only ones to cause DV at the same time they despise nice guys and prefer the bad boys. Very very confusing to me.
Second: being Brazilian I have never heard of games and playing games before until I met my first boyfriend who happens to be American. Sincerely, maybe this issue is also spoken of in Brazil, but I don't read either female magazines or male magazines. I'm totally ignorant about this issue. Is it possible to exist unconscious manipulation? I always thought manipulation to be only conscious.
I think it's possible to happen misunderstandings, culture shocks, as somebody having a behaviour another person can wrongly interpret as game. I mean anything is possible, mainly if one of the couple is less experienced than the other.

Brazilian Woman.

Jonathan Doe said...

I truly enjoyed this post. It is a true account of the dynamics that happen between men and women in the US. I unfortunately don't think too much of women in our country anymore as I have caught a glimpse of how they are on a personal level. They have said some really messed up things to me with the intention of shaming me or blaming me. Best thing to do is walk away. Be civil, but walk away. They continue to blame us for their own predicaments in life or they ask the moronic question, "Where have all the good men gone?" In other words, "Where are all the dumb asses who will pay for my shit, sacrifice their self-respect, and worship me though I harbor contempt for them?" After 10 years of struggling with attracting the opposite sex and attempting to emulate a mixture of the good guy/bad boy image and getting nowhere as well as reading bullshit information, I decided to just forfeit the game as it is not worth playing anymore. Finding a woman is not hard. What happens after you have her is not worth it in my humble opinion when you take into consideration our divorce rate, alimony, child support, family court systems, and the high probability of losing everything you ever worked for by the power of her word. This is why I choose to walk away. It's a game not worth playing.

Anonymous said...

I'm still somewhat clueless... I need some guy's help solving my doubts regarding games.
Thank you in advance,

Brazilian Woman.

Sociopathic Revelation said...

Brazilian Women;

One of the arguments proposed by PUA Gamers is that in a marriage situation, you should be able to use certain tactics to always insure that you have your wife under your control and be in the lead at all times (ultimately), and that will hopefully prevent her from straying and trying to ruin the marital relationship. You may not be familiar with the term Gaming or the acronym PUA, hence your confusion.

While the basic strategy of pick up artistry seems interesting at first---building confidence with women and being able to treat yourself as the desired one, I also have my criticisms of if it. I wonder how Gaming can explain how real intimacy can be forged when a man is at a vulnerable stage in his relationship, for example, and needs help. Ameriskanks believe that kindness and being genteel is perceived weakness (although they have no problems with playing the victim), but when real problems occur and men need their wives to be supportive, how does Gaming help? Only a wife that is truly compassionate and understand will be steadfast by her man---I don't know how Gaming can enable this type of real empathy.

Anonymous said...

Sociopathic Relevation;
Firstly excellent post. Very interesting. I've only just found your blog so I haven't had a chance to look through it yet but what's your take on the Herbivore thing that's happening in Japan? Here's a link in the unlikely event you haven't heard of it.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2009/06/the_herbivores_dilemma.html


Brazilian Woman;

As Sociopathic Revelation said Gaming is basically a way of attracting a woman, using a combination of things search for The Game by Neil Strauss to get a better idea.

One of the issues with it is that while it would satisfy the physical desire it is difficult to generate and maintain any sort of emotional relationship due to the need to "manage" the relationship, and so difficult to trust fully.

What Socio was saying is that it has been suggested (by others not him) it be possible to continue gaming once in a marriage in order to maintain control of the relationship.


The real danger with relationships is that to fully committ you need to drop your guard and leave yourself completely exposed. And the truth is that a lot of men, especially the nice guys have been burned too many times.

So they turn to gaming. It is one way of getting the physical without ever exposing yourself. So if Gaming and PUAs (or Players) seems distasteful to you now that you know what it is.

Appreciate this. Women made them.

The "nice guys" that they rejected time after time, the guys that women say they want but really don't. The nice guys got bitter because they realised they'd been decieved and used. So they changed and learned the rules of The Game and adapted in order to become exactly what women want. And all of this happened well before the worst aspects of feminism started to bite. Now that many many more women are getting narcastic, delusional, egotistical and develop a warped sense of entitlement.

Don't hate the Players hate The Game.


Scotsman

Sociopathic Revelation said...

"Where have all the good men gone?" In other words, "Where are all the dumb asses who will pay for my shit, sacrifice their self-respect, and worship me though I harbor contempt for them?" -Jonathan Doe

I understand that. It's one thing that an Ameriskank refuse to grasp---there are men like yourself (and here as well) that don't respond well to the lack of respect and even borderline hostility that they can exhibit. I realize everyone has moods, but a constant roller coaster of being used and abused is no good, and having to "man up" in order to procure someone who will never love you despite all the effort and generosity you show is nothing short of just misery in the end.

The screwy thing is that a toxic woman will not attempt to look in the mirror as to why men decide to find someone else to treat them better or wait things out. And you're right about the state still largely being on their side. To the detractors, it's just "you're just bitter because you can't get a date" which is absurd---the rabbit hole goes deeper and darker than that.

Anonymous said...

Sociopathic Revelation

I've heard of PUA before, it just isn't part of my culture. Here in Brazil no one needs to attend courses in order to date somebody else. I think it's ridiculous.
Is this game the synonym of manipulation? If so does PUA teaches manipulation to men who want a girlfriend?
And once again: is manipulation unconscious too? How can somebody manipulate another person without even knowing he/she is practicing manipulation/playing games?
Was playing games by women caused by Feminism? more exactly the second wave of Feminism?
I'm awaiting for responses. Thank you already.

Brazilian Woman.

Anonymous said...

I am not a classic nice Guy, just not brash and arrogant, more quiet and studious. I always got rejected so I gave up on getting a date or girlfriend and turned to escorts and strippers. Life is much better. I don't have to appear confident or witty, don't have to wonder if women like you. here are the advantages

No rejections, no "let's just be friends"; you don't care about what women think of you (you already know); you can confide your insecurities in an escort without getting dumped; finally escorts are there to please you.