Friday, September 10, 2010

I Respond to Reader Comments

This is a rarity for me, but I think many of you might be interested. Since I skipped out on submission fighting due to feeling under the weather (I almost never get sick, but there's always that one day) I seized the moment. So without further ado . . .

Jack Celliers said...

Go to Chile, where a group of workers is trapped deep underground suffering things we cannot imagine.

Now, these workers are miners, all men of course, because the labour market reserves this kind of jobs to male workers.

Feminist (even male ones) told me this is because they are enjoying a "privilege". They say it seriously. I don't know if they would repeat this in front of those poor guys.

But I would pay to see.

I would as well.

I've always been puzzled the idea that feminist-minded people believe this to be a privilege.

Apparently, being ordered onto the front lines and risking being maimed or killed in war is somehow a privilege as well, although (supposedly) men are the ones who are stupid to begin wars so somehow we deserved the repercussions of them.

Unreal. This perception of privilege would change very quickly when put to the test.

Fidelbogen said...
" the onus is on them to address and disown the serious misogyny within the group. Are they working on this?"

Wrong. There is NO onus on men, or men's "groups" to do anything whatsoever on behalf of "women" -- and certainly not at the behest of women who call themselves feminists!

Misogyny (sour feeling toward women, by men) is set to grow and grow and grow. This is happening for a reason. . .

Feminism is mainly responsible for fostering the conditions in society that virtually guarantee the growth of bad feeling between men and women.

And do you believe that the feminists will EVER admit their guilt, and assume responsibility, and do something, anything at all, to clean up the mess which THEY created?

Don't hold your breath. . .

I don't expect them to until it's a too late. And even then, it will always be framed in the attitude of how they want "real men" to fix things they trashed.

As Zenpriest aptly said, misogynists aren't born, they are made. The more I live the more I realize the truth of that.

curiepoint said...
It seems that having men stop other men from so-called 'misogyny' is a condition of being taken seriously by those who state that we must; in short, the women.

The very real issue is, we don't care if we have credibility amongst women.

None of the MRA or MGTOW sites out there have a thing to do with appealling to women. We are not saying "Please don't hurt us. Please take us seriously". We are in fact saying just the opposite.

Let's assume that men begin doing what women want. It may well be that things will start going our way, and our situation will gain credibility in law and family. What would the women do? They would take credit for making things better for us. Women are terrified that men themselves will affect change regardless of what input women have.

I think that we need to stick to our guns, and win the day for ourselves. To involve these monsters in feminine disguise just makes me think that I would not like those to whom I owe thanks.

We don't need them, guys. The only way to defeat injustice served up by women is to recognize them as being against us. I don't care if it makes me sound like I am using the same tactics as feminists. They won the first round by deploying them; they work.

We must in fact recognize that we are at war. In order to win a war, you have to fight as the enemy does. Greater firepower and higher ideals alone will guarantee loss of the war, and a great deal of what we have right now. We will be mired even deeper into slave status.

I think there is something to be said about not caring whether one is branded as a "misogynist" or not.

There comes a point where appeasing someone who has damned a man with such is a matter of control. With Ameriskank behavior, nothing is ever good enough unless you are of great stature/status---a minor celebrity of sorts. And even then, the capability of being torn down because she's on to the next bigger, better deal because of makes them vulnerable as well.

And a second part to this---years ago I perused a discussion about whether or not men should employ the same tactics feminists use in order to gain ground. While I agree that degrading and abasing one's self is ultimately defeating (witness Ameriskank mentality in regards trends and hedonistic nihilism), at the same time, trying to be the ideal of the better man doesn't always work..

Case in point---on my last job I had allegations of unfounded sexual harassment in a write-up. It was completely false, and instead of agreeing to play the nice guy and sign the document I refused and even pulled the owner aside about the issue. I even kept documentation of the employee's interaction with me and she was completely aware of it. She walked on eggshells with me ever since then. I figured if push came to shove I would let it be known that I wasn't going to let her get away with lies, damaging my rep, and placing my job in jeopardy.

If she would have followed up (she didn't), I would have procured the services of a lawyer. There were men's rights lawyers in town were I resided at the time.

Jennifer said...
Hi there, um, Socio. I think you have many good points, and I've seen even otherwise normal women twist men's words to the point where I was left red-faced with anger listening to it; honesty is most definitely not part of the feminist agenda.

There are a few misogynists in the mix; in the past week, I've heard one man admit to fantasizing about a day when women are carted off by the truckload to be raped while men do nothing; another man said women should be sent, unarmed, to the front of a battle-line to be slaughtered so the male fighters, the fit soldiers, would be spared. Undeniable hatred. But there has also been hatred from women, unbelievably so. Unfair sexism and hatred wil never solve the problem.

Maybe you might think I'm splitting hairs on this, but there are people out there that define "sexism" and "misogyny" on there own terms. Even ignoring a woman when she wants attention has been dubbed as sexist, as inane as it seems.

In all honesty, I wonder if the caustic remarks you have read was the result of men being kicked around enough to be fed up. I don't really think all of them would actually do what you described, but such wish-fulfillment of ill will is nothing new. It takes a man a good while before he even starts to ponder atrocities on women even if it's nothing more than hateful sounding fantasies. After half a life time of anti-male sentiment compounded with the notion that he should still throw himself under a bus for those who see him as expendable, that attitude is (in part) result of that sentiment. Especially when in dealings with Ameriskanks that are about expediency instead of honor or affection.

I can tell you that death wish fantasies from women are far more common, at least vocally and on the Net. I don't know if remember how popular Kill Bill 1 was with women when it was released, but I do. A woman slicing and dicing through (mostly) men is a revenge tale; a man doing the same is a exploitative slasher flick that garners low ratings with movie critics. I know one woman that went as far to dress up as the lead role at Halloween; I can also tell you that she viewed 90% of men around her as beneath her station despite having trysts with drug users and lowlifes, and felt men deserved the punishment they received in life perhaps because of her own self-induced foibles.

"True, males exist to serve females' needs"

Aww, that's truly humble and amazingly kind, but I don't think it's true. You men were created to serve God, just as we women were; only when both sexes stop trying to rule and/or extinguish the other will we be able to run God's Earth together as He planned.

Well, I'm not too terribly religious to begin with, but rather than focus on that I will focus on the statement. Today, we are seeing men place women on a pedestal just as ever, but there is no real mutual reciprocation for it. The social contract as been split asunder, and men are being raised to kiss women's asses with no reason other than the fact they are born women. It truly is a recipe for disaster, and yet another reason why you see "misogyny" festering. Men do not naturally shun, resent, detest, and exploit women as a whole. You will always have cads and brutes, but still . . .

It's interesting that that same quote says harmony must begin with women. I's another testimony of the fact that women have such inate influential power and must, for humanity and morality, use it for good.

Remember the social compact I mentioned? To a large extent, the ball is in women's court, and with your typical Ameriskank they are failing. It's true that women will have to make a big step in making amends and being harmonious with men---the big question is will they? As you can tell from some comments here that there are men that are ever cynical or just plain given up the idea. Call it a shame, but men have to adapt accordingly. Believe me on this point---men did not start the gender war, and if any real understanding happens, the earnest effort on women's part has to manifest. Otherwise, we will continue to have what we have now, incessant conflict and distrust that only reaffirms what this blog is all about.


Curiepoint said...


Terminologies be damned. Misogyny has as fluid a definition as rape does; it's what women decide it means.

If I refuse to trust women, and that's misogyny, then so be it; I am a misogynist. The key here is simply that I don't care what they call me. It all amounts to the same name-calling and frustration they feel when men don't do what they say.


Does that distrust and dislike mean I want harm to come to them? Nope. I am utterly indifferent as to what women do to themselves and the consequences that fall out of that.

I will not hear them.
I will not help them.
I will not care about them.

And, I will survive.

As far as the whole NAWALT sentiment, I told you that we are at war. Collateral damage is certain, and I feel some glimmer of sadness for that; it's unfortunate, but it isn't up to me to keep them out of harm's way. Let their own legs carry them out of danger. I sure as hell won't.

Sociopathic Revelation said...


You have arrived at a juncture in life that I am entering as well. While my anger has subsided I have to survive in this cultural malaise and helping women with skank behavior and entitlement is simply not going to happen. It's more about self-interest, and if American women can't come to terms with it, that's their problem, not mine.

I remember a date I went on a while back and although it ended on a pleasurable note, I might as well have set myself with a prostitute. I found out she was unemployed, never would pay for anything for herself, and expected me to direct anything and everything and pay the tab for it all.

I dropped her like a radioactive element---who needs to date someone that wants to shunt everything on me? I'll be damned if my hard work goes to someone who is going to be parasitical. She's still interested in me, and I won't give her (and others like her) the time of day.

Women supposedly fought for being "independent" and paving their own way---I expect them to. If it was mutual equity with women like that, than I might be more understanding.

The truth of the matter is that todays so called "modern" women yearn for a man to lead, but when he does it's a battle for supremacy. It's about winning with them at any cost in the short term no matter who it hurts or the long term consequences. They fight tooth and nail with men with shit tests and amplify petty arguments enough to give someone a cardic arrest. Valor? Trust? Honor? Diginity? Support? Forget it. It doesn't interest them anymore.

Like I said, it's a gender war that women started, NOT men. There is a Cold War of the sexes and as long as there are Ameriskanks fueling the fire I'll be damned if I will enable them to stoke the flames. I agree with you that they need to fight their own battles for once without our rescuing them; men have been doing this so long, so where is their empathy for men? They would rather be in a pissing contest of victimhood instead, so let them have at it without me.

Curiepoint said...

I agree, SR.

I have to tell you, I have dated quite a few modern american women, and I haven't been all that impressed. I would go on record as saying that not all of them were totally psycho or all that entitled in their attitudes. One of them actually got a second date, but it didn't go beyond that. She was the best out of the bunch, and seemed to be real enough. That was until I found out that:

1). Her drug-addicted son with anger management issues and was a body-builder besides still lived with her, along with his seventeen year old girlfriend...he was 26.

2). Her divorce wasn't finalized, meaning she was still married. While she spoke unkindly about her ex-husband, she elected to remain married to him. This was a situation in place for over a year...why the delay?

Who needs to be "that guy", coming in to listen to her prattle and rants about her miserable life but does nothing about it?

The remainder were un-memorable, and don't warrant discussion here.

Prior to this, I was engaged for five years to one of the most screwed up women I have ever met. You name any manner of deal-breakers that a woman could dreg up and toss all over you, she had them.

By these experiences, I have given up on finding any woman in today's society who isn't utterly nuts or full of issues. Throw in the fact that if I were to have a challenge to face in my life, they didn't want to hear it, electing instead to act like a mom and berate me for thinking about myself for a moment.

As an after-thought, all of them were church girls much for "getting involved with the wrong type".

I am well past my anger. I reserve the right to be bitter, however, regardless of how that looks to other people. My bitterness is a mechanism of survival, and a sentry against trusting any woman ever again. My life may be lonely, but as I have always said:

To be alone and lonely can sting, but to be in a marriage or serious relationship and still feel lonely is a horrendous pain. I am exactly one week away from 50 years old, and I am really quite okay with my solitary life. I have turned in my shiny armor, retired my noble steed, and quit the knight business permanently.

They just aren't worth it anymore...if they ever were.

Anonymous said...

Well, I'm one of the women who does believe in mutual equality. I believe there were many unfairnesses to women back when feminism began, and since the first women won what they sought, the piranhas in the group took over and began an all-out assault on men. I have mutual empathy as well: I'd like to help young men and/or women that are suffering from mistakes in the past or abuse and I try not to brand all members of a group because of some brutes.

The Shrug said...

Well, I'm one of the women who does believe in mutual equality.

Too little, too late.

Curiepoint said...

I try not to brand all members of a group because of some brutes.

The only problem is, the ones that aren't brutes are indistinguishable from those that are. Plus, all manner of nice little deeds will do nothing to sway me from believing that they are amongst the good ones. I don't see too many women doing much of anything to really face the problems. One or two start blogs, and talk a good game. None however do much in the way of bringing political power to bear, or influencing the media. If anything, they make the situation worse.

As SR has said, men did not start this gender war. It is not up to us to take any steps to end it. Until that happens, women will always be the enemy, and not deserving of trust from me. I will live my life, amass wealth, and make myself comfortable. Women have been wise to leave me alone and I am wiser still to leave them alone.

Watchting them seethe and writhe in their own hellish juices makes me far happier than having one of them in my life on any intimate terms. I needn't do anything to them to make them miserable. They do it to themselves; I just laugh at them.

A Happy Bicycle said...

What women call "bitterness" in us men (because we won't kiss their asses anymore and are more than happy to tell them why) is actually "experience" with them (to us men who have actually walked the walk).
Been there, done that, AND got the T-shirt, too!

"Not all men are fools -- that's why some are bachelors!"

Anonymous said...

Believe what you want Shrug, but if that was the attitude of all women and men, we'd just regress further. I'm not sure who you think it's "too little, too late" for: You or your forgiveness? You're not owed anything by me. Society? Never. My beliefs thus come from Scripture, and Christians never give up.

Curie, I could tell countless stories of worthless men historically and presently, yet I don't brand men as a whole because of the numerous bad ones. It's incredibly unlikely that there are more corrupt women than men.

"As SR has said, men did not start this gender war. It is not up to us to take any steps to end it. Until that happens, women will always be the enemy, and not deserving of trust from me"

Then you're stuck, and so would the rest of the world be; I'm glad you're happy with your position then. The early fem's complaints were not all made-up by any means. If I listened exclusively to either the whines of women or the whines of men, I'd either stupidly pick one side and be as blind-sided as so many are already, or I'd give up on humanity as a whole. I choose neither. True, I enjoy mocking the dumb men of patricentric groups who still think they rule the world, and the rad femmies I just hide my face in horror or disgust from. But many issues aren't suitable for laughter, and I prefer to try and offer balance when I can rather than watching people stew in their own pots.

You don't appear to hang around any Christian circles, but true people in the faith make all the difference. Nothing wrong with being single and wealthy; you leave women alone and show far better sense than some members of both genders who live in and practice bitterness. Still it's a damn shame; this isn't the way God designed us to live.

Curiepoint said...

God designed us to choose freely. That's all I am doing. It just so happens a lot of men are coming to the same conclusions and choosing accordingly.

And what precisely was justified in the early feminist dogma? They couldn't vote? Well, the very first election in which women voted in large numbers, they elected one of the most corrupt men to the white house: Warren G. Harding. And why? not because he spoke to them politically, nor because he had a platform upon which women in particular would gain; it was simply because the women all found him charming.

And gee...generations of men fighting and dying to defend "their" women and keep them safe...didn't hear too many women demanding equality there...nor do you today, for that matter.

For three generations, women have noisily proclaimed their "rights" to this, that, and the other all at the expense of men who did nothing to earn the scorn. Where were the so-called more reasonable and equitable voices amongst women then? Where are they now?

All I hear is a bunch of whining from women who do not deserve the deference that us evil men have given you since time imemorial. Do any of you actually think that you can kick us and we'll just continue to curry your favor?

Woman up, lady. Men are not stupid like your sisters told you they were.

Sociopathic Revelation said...

While I do think there is something to notion that men and women are not meant to be alone, this generation or so is seeing the poisonous effects of feminism and the schism that it has created with both. I have nothing against people trying to make amends, but like Curiepoint, it has come to a pivotal conjucture where men have to choose for their own self-interest. (Of course, we are blasted as "selfish" for doing so, but a woman doing the same is exercising caution, choice, and intelligence).

If your modern Ameriskank cannot (or will not) even bother to come to some sort of mutual equity, that's bad enough. But to expect us to throw ourselves underneath a bus while they party at our expense is an ultimate insult.

Jennifer said...

You have a bad habit of grouping all women together, Curie, common in the Manosphere. I honor men who have died and do not abuse my rights at all; I've voted conservatively and believe that one of the reasons we should have equality is so that women can help carry burdens. We also have our own unique touch: women are needed as nurses, doctors, teachers, and often in military work. But my views do not trample men: I believe women in the army should be by necessity limited and that standards should never be lowered just so more people can join in somewhere.

"nor do you today, for that matter"

Oh yes you do: hundreds of women are insisting on positions in the army.

"Where were the so-called more reasonable and equitable voices amongst women then? Where are they now?"

You're hearing one now, and if you want more of them, look to Christian women. There are far more healthy traditional families than either feminists or the Boyosphere would like to admit.

Sociopathic Revelation said...


I did allow your comment since you were not too caustic. I don't mind dissent voices, but the "Boyosphere" remark is rather cheap. Careful in taking anyone to task here---I have little interest in fielding someone who gets too out of control, and it's an area where men can vent a bit.

I agree with you that we need women in important roles---in fact, many men are questioning certain women because they feel women are neglecting/abandoning those roles and demanding more out of men than ever. Especially with not real equity or respect.

As far as Christian women are concerned, I'm not religious, but myself and many other men haven't had the best of times with them. The divorce rate, the amount of adultery, the proliferation of single moms that claim to be religious, those who want to use men, and so forth do exist. You may stick to your principles and I don't know you, but even Christian men are finding that there is skankdom in the faithful fold. I honor women like Kim (for example) because she is anti-feminist and pro-men, and they do exist to be fair, but Jaded Guy and many others have had some dealings with them that aren't always so positive. So keep that in mind.

Jennifer said...

Believe me Sociopath, I know men have had terrible experiences. But I also know that many blogs on the manosphere are rabid, and just as bad as feminism. MarkyMark is cool, but there are numerous authors who make awful remarks not deserving of respect from anyone; they've gone far beyond venting, and even women far more conservative and patriarchal than Kim are disgusted with them. I did not mean any offense towards you you or bloggers like you, or even Curie, but there are those who are good matches for femmies. Thank you for keeping things on an intelligent level; I agree with your points and understand the frusteration of genuinely concerned and targeted men. Nor do I blame any of you for going your own way; it's just my interest to counter any tendencies in either sex to group all opposite members into one category.